Rant Eugenics was never practiced properly

[Nihilma]

Uganda is under European neocolonial rule and if it will benefit Europe, they will suddenly have a civil war and degenerate into the stone age like half of Africa. I don't think their birth rates are that important.

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In face of your argument it is.
If income is always negatively correlated to birth rate you should expect the poor everywhere to always have low birth rate.
That isn't the case.

 

[ILoveVesna]

I mean if it's like limited to erasing defects without actually killing an embryo Ig I'm fine with it.
The problem I see doe is this :
Is having an IQ of 80 a defect ? I mean there are educationnal factors that enter into one's IQ, but there's also genetical factors right, so if we were to say we should eliminate IQs inferior to 80, the bell curve doesn't work anymore, and suddenly having an IQ of 100 is bellow the norm. And then it becomes the defect in turn, and it gets bred out, until we have a population of maxxed out IQ smarties.

We should keep going till we can't anymore. Once we reach the highest potential for humanity, (max iq, max physical strength, etc), then there's no need for eugenics anymore, aside of the occasional mutation

Also trannies are not genetically built to be trannies, that is some lunatic nonesense, coming from someone studying psychology. Dysphoria isn't a genetic defect but the consequence of one's grooming into either self-loathing of jealousy, and then the directing of those feelings towards your sex.

I mean yeah its a gender dysphoria is a mental illness. Saying trans genocide through eugenics is le funny chud larp though and you cant stop me. The only real thing eugenics can do for trannies is a genetic disposition that doesn't exist.

Even if you breed out defects, genetics are not the only cause of le bad happening, there's a whole field of study called epigenetics for that.

One we can get to the point of higher control over society, a lot of these issues can be solved.

 

[Nihilma]

We should keep going till we can't anymore. Once we reach the highest potential for humanity, (max iq, max physical strength, etc), then there's no need for eugenics anymore, aside of the occasional mutation

Not convinced about the ethicality of this, but open to debate. Though not ready for this debate, this is not my field of study or interest

 

[ILoveVesna]

Not convinced about the ethicality of this, but open to debate. Though not ready for this debate, this is not my field of study or interest

I dont know how to ethically back up my argument
But logically I think it makes sense
If people are better as a species, then that will most likely lead to more innovation, which will help cause a positive feedback loop where society gets progressively better.
One way for this would be eugenics and controlled human gene editing to give our species better attributes.

 

[Nihilma]

I dont know how to ethically back up my argument
But logically I think it makes sense
If people are better as a species, then that will most likely lead to more innovation, which will help cause a positive feedback loop where society gets progressively better.
One way for this would be eugenics and controlled human gene editing to give our species better attributes.

The problem is it's automatically classifying being short as "worse" than being tall, that having such facial features is "worse" than having other ones, basically it's making extremelly dangerous judgement on what the human should be and shouldn't be.
I mean I'm sure you can see the problem with that right ?

 

[Aedra]

The idea of judging a man's worth by his practical capability/intelligence/strength/looks is inherently materialistic and incompatible with a Christian/Muslim view of humanity. Which means OP values this world over his beliefs.

 

[TeeRanney]

In face of your argument it is.
If income is always negatively correlated to birth rate you should expect the poor everywhere to always have low birth rate.
That isn't the case.

My argument is that eugenics already exists even in the most "woke" european countries, and the people complaining about its absence are those who has been considered as undesirable.

 

[Nihilma]

The idea of judging a man's worth by his practical capability/intelligence/strength/looks is inherently materialistic and incompatible with a Christian/Muslim view of humanity. Which means OP values this world over his beliefs.

There's that too, but nobody would ever say that education is BAD on the opposite end, yet we know it boosts intelligence.
We put emphasis on healthy diets, and pregnants mothers do take great care usually of what they eat in order to get the "best" results.

Also children do take vaccines that are hundred of years old against the worst of diseases like rabbies for example, technically speaking the child has nothing to say in all of this, neither does God, yet I don't see it as sinful inherently.

But I do agree with you intrinsicly. So it's a difficult subject, don't really know how to position myself

 

[ILoveVesna]

The problem is it's automatically classifying being short as "worse" than being tall, that having such facial features is "worse" than having other ones, basically it's making extremelly dangerous judgement on what the human should be and shouldn't be.
I mean I'm sure you can see the problem with that right ?

I can see it
But the thing is height and facial structure as being good are subjective.
They do not necessarily help humanity.
If people need to be engineered to be short or tall for certain roles then yea
But automation would be better in those scenarios

The idea of judging a man's worth by his practical capability/intelligence/strength/looks is inherently materialistic and incompatible with a Christian/Muslim view of humanity. Which means OP values this world over his beliefs.

A man's worth isnt over this.
Many niggers have been successful
Many crackers are living in the streets
Im only saying this for a better humanity that can progress faster, leading to a better society
Deciding worth over these things is flawed as once someone is out of embryo stage you cannot change these attributes unless through drastic changes.
Race is irrelevant in the end
If we can do more things before eventually dying then thats good

 

[Aedra]

A man's worth isnt over this.
Many niggers have been successful
Many crackers are living in the streets
Im only saying this for a better humanity that can progress faster, leading to a better society
Deciding worth over these things is flawed as once someone is out of embryo stage you cannot change these attributes unless through drastic changes.
Race is irrelevant in the end
If we can do more things before eventually dying then thats good

This isn't an argument. You didn't back it up in the moral sense, and you *have* to do that if you still want to call yourself a Christian. Or just admit you care about a few Darwinian concepts more than Christ. It's all the same to me.

 

[ILoveVesna]

This isn't an argument. You didn't back it up in the moral sense, and you *have* to do that if you still want to call yourself a Christian. Or just admit you care about a few Darwinian concepts more than Christ. It's all the same to me.

I dont know how to back up my point morally
Im just saying from a logical point of view
I might care more about what le world economic fourm says or whateveror but I really dont know where I fully stand yet
Ill figure it out eventually

 

[Nihilma]

I dont know how to back up my point morally
Im just saying from a logical point of view
I might care more about what le world economic fourm says or whateveror but I really dont know where I fully stand yet
Ill figure it out eventually

Beyond the topic of discussion it's a healthy mindset. I tend to forget people probably aren't as extreme as they appear on sites like the sharty, because there's a global incentive to appear as extreme as possible as a natural reaction to degeneracy, but for religious people in particular it's always important to balance two things out :
1) Being open minded and doubting what you believe
2 ) Submitting to God and the Church.

So I do like this idea about eugenics as an interesting thought experiment, and it may lead somewhere but Aedra is correct, if you call yourself a christian remember who you are and where you come from.

 

[ILoveVesna]

Beyond the topic of discussion it's a healthy mindset. I tend to forget people probably aren't as extreme as they appear on sites like the sharty, because there's a global incentive to appear as extreme as possible as a natural reaction to degeneracy, but for religious people in particular it's always important to balance two things out :
1) Being open minded and doubting what you believe
2 ) Submitting to God and the Church.

So I do like this idea about eugenics as an interesting thought experiment, and it may lead somewhere but Aedra is correct, if you call yourself a christian remember who you are and where you come from.

well how would I balance it?
am I just supposed to give up my interest in science?

 

[Aedra]

well how would I balance it?
am I just supposed to give up my interest in science?

As long as the science in question contradicts with Christianity, yes. Don't cave in to worldly influences, reform yourself according to whatever the Church and the Bible says. Don't conform your faith to the world, instead make the world conform to it. Nihilma will most likely give you some half assed response about how the two don't contradict or whatever. (No offense intended.) They do. No one can serve two masters.

 

[ILoveVesna]

As long as the science in question contradicts with Christianity, yes. Don't cave in to worldly influences, reform yourself according to whatever the Church and the Bible says. Don't conform your faith to the world, instead make the world conform to it. Nahilma will most likely give you some half assed response about how the two don't contradict or whatever. They do. No one can serve two masters.

its over or whatever
I still think that logically eugenics and limited human gene editing is the best path forwards for humanity
>inb4 hypocrisy

 

[Nihilma]

well how would I balance it?
am I just supposed to give up my interest in science?

Oh no no absolutely not, I get you. I think it's something very subtle and complicated to grasp.
For example, I don't believe that stating that the earth is 4.5billions years old is a sin or is going against the Word of God in any sense whatsoever, because it isn't in Tradition to understand the account of genesis as being a literal script of what happened during the creation of the universe. It's also helpful to understand that we are not muslims, we do not believe God himself wrote the Bible with his own "hands", but that he inspired people who ultimately wrote with their own humanity.

I think this balance can be reached once you understand on what your faith lies. What is the base of your faith, because once this is laid down, you can see that the rest is interpretations of consequences that emerge from this base, and science can help in this.

The Faith for example teaches us that God loves everyone of us, that he envisionned us before we were even born.
In psalms 139 :
"For you formed my inward parts; you knitted me together in my mother’s womb.
14 I praise you, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made.Wonderful are your works; my soul knows it very well.
15 My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret, intricately woven in ithe depths of the earth."

My question would be how do you reconcile that and eugenics for example.

Also understand something : science and philosophy are different things. Faith does not position itself on science, but it does on philosophical stances. Saying "it is possible to modify the human genome" is different than saying "we should modify the human genome". Science theoretically is just a number of facts. From those you can make philosophy, and the bases on which christians should make philosophy from science is the Bible, and the creeds.

 

[Nihilma]

As long as the science in question contradicts with Christianity, yes. Don't cave in to worldly influences, reform yourself according to whatever the Church and the Bible says. Don't conform your faith to the world, instead make the world conform to it. Nihilma will most likely give you some half assed response about how the two don't contradict or whatever. (No offense intended.) They do. No one can serve two masters.

Well I wouldn't sat science and faith contradict, but I'd say philosophy ald faith can contradict.
In the most basic of forms, science is supposed to merely be the observation of nature, the observation of facts, and christians have been using these to interpret scriptures since forever.
The Church Fathers called it "The Book of Nature" I think, and this book should serve to understand the Book of the Word, and vice versa

 

[Nihilma]

As long as the science in question contradicts with Christianity, yes. Don't cave in to worldly influences, reform yourself according to whatever the Church and the Bible says. Don't conform your faith to the world, instead make the world conform to it. Nihilma will most likely give you some half assed response about how the two don't contradict or whatever. (No offense intended.) They do. No one can serve two masters.

Also I'll never ever contradict you on the "cannot serve two masters". I just see science and methodology as tools God gave us to better understand his creation.

 

[Weebhunter3000]

You don't speak for them.

They’re already dead.

??? How so?

If only the best genes are passed on then the standard of beauty will raise amongst the general population.

 

[Aedra]

If only the best genes are passed on then the standard of beauty will raise amongst the general population.

I don't think you understand how that works. If we all became extremely good looking overnight, then the standard for what constitutes a "good looking man" would simply increase and there would still be people who would be considered below average. This wouldn't solve the problem of inceldom. The solution for inceldom is simply a cultural change, strict monogamy, lower standards and the eradication of the hook up culture.

They’re already dead.

You're projecting your bad experiences onto them. I knew/know plenty of such extremely disabled people, many of them are happy. Because they didn't grow up in a heartless society.