thread_prefix.19 General christian thread

Sorry if I'm asking too many questions but why did god allow adam and eve to fall in the first place? Since he's omni-everything he could clearly stop it but he didn't. I guess asking this question is the same as asking why did god create evil which many answer as "what god does is beyond our understanding" which is an unsatisfying answer.
God wanted to create a being "in his image". A being free, intelligent, capable of choice and to love freely, because God wanted to have a relationship with his creation, yet how can one have a relationship with a robot ?

God wanted to live and be loved by a conscious and intelligent being, which meant giving him free choice. Free choice comes with risks, dough
 
I'd say that if you see duality as an opposition of force, then yes duality does not exist in Christianity.

In the fundament of everything is God, the creator. Yet evil exists, and evil is not God.
One might be quick to oppose God to Satan and evil to good as opposite forces but they are not.

The first creation of God is light, and darkness is not the opposite of light either.

In Christianity, Satan is the absence of God, a being created by God who wanted to be above God, only to be as far to him as can be. Evil is not the opposite of good, evil is the absence of good. Thus, sinning means "missing the target", it is not something, it is the absence of something, a fail. And thus darkness is not the opposite of light, darkness is the absence of light.

Yet darkness and light are thr continuity of one another, they are vastly different things. A photon and the absence of a photon are not the same thing. Same for evil and good. Same for God and Satan. Neither is the continuation of the other, but they are not the opposite of one another either.
Again, heavy sufi similarities. You're literally repeating Suhrawardi's philosophy to me. I wonder if they're based on each other since some christian theologians like aquinas were influenced by the works of muslims like avicenna.
 
God wanted to create a being "in his image". A being free, intelligent, capable of choice and to love freely, because God wanted to have a relationship with his creation, yet how can one have a relationship with a robot ?

God wanted to live and be loved by a conscious and intelligent being, which meant giving him free choice. Free choice comes with risks, dough
Oh yea I forgot about this. We also have this explanation in islam. The alzheimers is getting worse.
 
Again, heavy sufi similarities. You're literally repeating Suhrawardi's philosophy to me. I wonder if they're based on each other since some christian theologians like aquinas were influenced by the works of muslims like avicenna.
People can come to the truth through nature, although the fullness of the truth cannot exist in multiple places, and therefore there can only be one orthodoxia, and it is the job of the philosopher to find it.

Therefore, you can find bits and pieces of truth everywhere. Aristotle and Plato were great thinkers whom christians thinkers read a lot
 
Nice convo though, I am happy to try and answer to the best of my limited abilities if you ever got more question dough, G
 
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Since we talked about le free speech so much recently, @Nihilma do you genuinely believe early Christians pushed for "le tolerance of different beliefs"? Like, do you actually believe your opinions on free speech are the proper Christian view or do you at least recognize that it's most likely your French bias?
 
Since we talked about le free speech so much recently, @Nihilma do you genuinely believe early Christians pushed for "le tolerance of different beliefs"? Like, do you actually believe your opinions on free speech are the proper Christian view or do you at least recognize that it's most likely your French bias?
Depends on what you call tolerance.
I believe Church Fathers fought heresies with all their heart and time, but i don't think they'd fight it with swords rather than the pen. It's also thanks to that that we have tradition.
Tolerance to me is just accepting that others refuse Christ. If others refuse Christ, it doesn't allow me to take their human dignity away. I will fight against heresies with my word, but to fight with words means the other should also be able to use words. In other words, I believe that the truth will prevail and win.

No need for the sword, therefore, I believe in tolerance as a tolerance of opinion, not a tolerance of action. And this tolerance doesn't mean approval. If it is a heresy, I will fight against it. But I don't believe in putting people in prison for their opinions, unless ofc it's extreme degeneracy aka pedophilia necrophilia whatever weird shit

There might be a bit of bias in there, but I truly do believe that this view is sound and coherent.
 
Depends on what you call tolerance.
I believe Church Fathers fought heresies with all their heart and time, but i don't think they'd fight it with swords rather than the pen. It's also thanks to that that we have tradition.
Tolerance to me is just accepting that others refuse Christ. If others refuse Christ, it doesn't allow me to take their human dignity away. I will fight against heresies with my word, but to fight with words means the other should also be able to use words. In other words, I believe that the truth will prevail and win.

No need for the sword, therefore, I believe in tolerance as a tolerance of opinion, not a tolerance of action. And this tolerance doesn't mean approval. If it is a heresy, I will fight against it. But I don't believe in putting people in prison for their opinions, unless ofc it's extreme degeneracy aka pedophilia necrophilia whatever weird shit

There might be a bit of bias in there, but I truly do believe that this view is sound and coherent.
Well, after Constantine there were more and more anti-pagan laws put into practice within the Roman Empire. With many Emperors destroying and burning down pagan temples themselves. The pattern was simple actually, the Edict of Milan gave freedom of conscience to choose any religion at first. But over time, that too was abolished in favor of giving Christians preference over pagans. By the 6th century you could risk the death penalty for practicing paganism. There's this strange myth going around that early Christians defeated paganism with just "muh words and philosophy". Sure that was a part of it but that doesn't mean they didn't push for cracking down on the pagans once they got in power. I don't see why that should change now. If Muslims have the right to have countries free of other religions, then Christians also have that right.
Athena9.jpg
You know what this is? This is the Roman Goddess Aphrodite, a holy artifact from the pagan perspective. It is dated to the first century. You can see that Christians desecrated it and carved a cross right on her face. Thus marking Christianity's conquest of paganism symbolically.

I don't see any tolerance here. I don't believe tolerance to be a Christian virtue.
 
Well, after Constantine there were more and more anti-pagan laws put into practice within the Roman Empire. With many Emperors destroying and burning down pagan temples themselves. The pattern was simple actually, the Edict of Milan gave freedom of conscience to choose any religion at first. But over time, that too was abolished in favor of giving Christians preference over pagans. By the 6th century you could risk the death penalty for practicing paganism. There's this strange myth going around that early Christians defeated paganism with just "muh words and philosophy". Sure that was a part of it but that doesn't mean they didn't push for cracking down on the pagans once they got in power. I don't see why that should change now. If Muslims have the right to have countries free of other religions, then Christians also have that right.
View attachment 5997You know what this is? This is the Roman Goddess Aphrodite, a holy artifact from the pagan perspective. It is dated to the first century. You can see that Christians desecrated it and carved a cross right on her face. Thus marking Christianity's conquest of paganism symbolically.

I don't see any tolerance here. I don't believe tolerance to be a Christian virtue.
I see. What I do agree with you is that Idolatry is evil, and destroying an idol once no one is left to fight for it is completely fine by me. We should strive hard for idolatry to be gone from the world, as we should strive for people to accept Christ, the both are linked.

But I hard disagree with the methods you're mostly fine with.
 
I see. What I do agree with you is that Idolatry is evil, and destroying an idol once no one is left to fight for it is completely fine by me. We should strive hard for idolatry to be gone from the world, as we should strive for people to accept Christ, the both are linked.

But I hard disagree with the methods you're mostly fine with.
I don't necessarily approve of a literal death penalty either, I simply think the state should have one official religion and minority religions should know their place and everyone must know which religion is the ruling one. That's basically how it is in Russia at the moment, the state gives Russian Orthodox Church primacy and cracks down on many other religious groups. They call it a form of managed plurality. There are people practicing different religions and they are allowed, sure. But everyone knows who is truly in charge. Unlike western countries where it's just le full equality (although in reality it's more like western countries are anti-christian). Russia also bans some religions it considers to be subversive, one example is Jehovah's Witnesses, they are completely banned within Russia.

So I'm not saying I want to kill anyone or throw them in prison. I am just saying I want Christianity to be in power and be given preference above other religions by the state. That's simply a right for a religion that's practiced by the majority, no?
 
I don't necessarily approve of a literal death penalty either, I simply think the state should have one official religion and minority religions should know their place and everyone must know which religion is the ruling one. That's basically how it is in Russia at the moment, the state gives Russian Orthodox Church primacy and cracks down on many other religious groups. They call it a form of managed plurality. There are people practicing different religions and they are allowed, sure. But everyone knows who is truly in charge. Unlike western countries where it's just le full equality (although in reality it's more like western countries are anti-christian). Russia also bans some religions it considers to be subversive, one example is Jehovah's Witnesses, they are completely banned within Russia.

So I'm not saying I want to kill anyone or throw them in prison. I am just saying I want Christianity to be in power and be given preference above other religions by the state. That's simply a right for a religion that's practiced by the majority, no?
Ok yeah that I can completely get behind, I'm fine.
Understand me I just don't wanna inflict on others what others inflict on christians in other countries. A tree bears its fruits, I think the persecussion of christians is a fruit of evil I don't wanna reproduce.

But if you see it that way, yeah I'm completely fine with that. Matter of fact I think other religions would live well in a christian controlled country, because christianity is a fundamentaly decent religion, so minorities would be treated decently. But yeah I agree that the separation of state and religion is bad.
 
If you're serious, then the reason these people exist is from apostasy; calling yourself something (and lying about living up to what you say about yourself) without actually being that. It's much more common in today's age, so you see a lot more people like homosexuals calling themselves Christians, so that they can follow their own desecrated perception of Jesus Christ while maintaining a false comfort in forcing themselves to believe that their ways are tolerated by God.
 
"But the Lord said to Samuel, “Do not consider his appearance or his height, for I have rejected him. The Lord does not look at the things people look at. People look at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart.” 1 Samuel 16:7.
 
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