Report it I can't be fucked to read every post and every thread
Autism do you believe "high-functioning" autism is real and can you grow out of it
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Soygoy
I will fight for /anthro/
This still doesn't explain anything, and if anything you're telling me to go read a theological book, which you know I wouldn't but even if I wanted to, how can I read it, can you give me a link or something, like a source for me to read it for free o algo? Even then, how long is this book, can you atleast tell me about it's contents? It feels like you're dismissing me here. You've said your opinion, refused to explain it and now you are deferring me to the words of a different person. I just don't understand why religion and science can't co-exist for some reason? But even then, this is about the existence of autism. So I'm not going to stop, you need to adequately explain to me right now why you personally believe that autism is not real and why you believe that religion has to exist in the discussion, without deffering, without dismissing and without deflecting.
I don't feel like pressing that button ever again, you know.
There are audiobooks on YouTube and PDFs on archive.org
Soygoy
I will fight for /anthro/
I have many sources, including my own autism diagnosis and you expect me to read a singular 380 page book, that I can't even fucking read?
My best alternative is a 2 hour long audiobook? Can we get to the point where autism, THE PRIMARY POINT OF DISCUSSION actually matters?
I'm trying to type something out for you right quick, of my own thoughts, but I haven't read that book, so I don't know. I'm just trying to help out with what I've found. I'm sorry, man.
Soygoy
I will fight for /anthro/
Maybe you might be better to discuss this with, I guess.
Aedra
Well-known schlogga
Don't bother with giving dogs what is holy.
bestestperson
Nusoiglubba
People whjo think demons are real are so dumb and don't believe in science
Soygoy
I will fight for /anthro/
Don't be so pathetic.
ISTANBUL
Most Helpful Member of The Blog
soygoy owns you lol
I don't know, man, I want to help him out, to try and connect some dots in that head of his. I'm not sure I'm wasting "holy knowledge" on him, either, with what I'm about to write. I feel bad for him not having his intrigue fulfilled.
What you originally asked is why religion should play a part in this discussion, and so I answered with the simple, perhaps obvious, observation that religion defines the views of religious people, and therefore their views on a subject will be determined by their religion, so I hope that comment was at least a bit thoughtful for the general explanation, as a reminder, of sorts, which now reminds us, also, to the specifics of Aedra's perspective, which are a combination of religious perspectives of Eastern Orthodoxy (which you will primarily find in that book he linked, as I'm un-keen on other specifically Orthodox Christian perspectives on this). For these specifics, the "how", it's best to understand Aedra's perspective not only on mental illness, but on psychiatry, specifcally. He does not feel bothered to type something out for us, and I will not put blame on him for that, as I think it's his choice on where he wants to start or stop talking about things, so I will instead lend you two shorter, conciser sources (either of which have previously been posted on here by Aedra) that will be more immediate than a large book and that could give an overview to the position.
What I will first suggest is this documentary, which he has shared with me previously, and that I have watched as well. It isn't an utter representation of the perspective, having some elements within it that we might view as "woke" or "liberal", and having been produced by some interesting individuals (not Christians, albeit), but it is a valuable source for some terrible truths about the psychiatric industry. Maybe the documentary is also long, but it's the best I can provide for you right now.
https://blog.nomorefakenews.com/2012/08/09/mental-disorders-do-not-exist/
Finally, I do recommend you understand that these differences in your belief and his are not going to change, of course, and you may still think of him as a fool for not believing in "psychiatry" or "mental illnesses" as truth, but I do want you to understand the position (that documentary in particular will likely help you understand the strongest arguments against psychiatry) so that you can satiate your own curiosity here.
Soygoy
I will fight for /anthro/
I'm looking into this and writing down a response as we speak. I am reading the blog and I find it to be problematic to say the least as it's very heavily opinionated and doesn't clearly or explicitly prove the lack of existence of mental illness / disorders, but provides some concern for pharmaceutical drugs and how they effect people with neurodevelopmental disorders, particularly in the side-effects. As someone with autism, I do not take medication and with my disorder recognized I get extra help and support, so the existence of mental disorders benefits me. Remember, this is a discussion about Autism.
Fake20Dollarbill
Polish-Swedish-English-Scottish Aryan Beast
You never grow out of being an autistic retard, I'm 19 and I will NEVER grow out of being a menace
Soygoy
I will fight for /anthro/
TLDR: Do your own research.
We're comparing an extensive history of research and a medically recognized mental disorder to one man's opinion blog, of which it's contents are heavily politically opinionated. Regardless, looking into the article, certain points arise such as "there are no defining physical tests. No blood tests, no urine tests, no saliva tests, no laboratory tests of any kind." which is interesting considering that these are purely mental disorders, so why would physical tests ever have any relevance?It's important to realize here that the topic of debate is autism, not psychiatry and psychology as a whole and I could easily do my own research and present you with an extremely long documentation of the history of autism, what autism is and how autism effects us today, with the obvious fact that it is currently a medically recognized mental disorder. If we are to believe that autism is not real, I suppose that means that documentation for autism should not exist and it should not be medically recognized, which to me it honestly just seems like discrimination, not to mention for others with other mental disorders like Tourettes or Schizophrenia, if we are going to talk about psychiatry and psychology as a whole that is, then Aedra's viewpoint genuinely stems from a viewpoint of ignorance, i.e "Your condition is not real. Act normal." Genuinely disgusting in my opinion.
But back on topic. The article has a quote which I agree with "A disorder doesn’t have to have a blood test to be valid. If that were the case, all mental disorders would be invalid…There is no lab test for any mental disorder right now in our science." to which the author goes on a rampage over because mental disorders do not have physical tests, and why would they? They're neurodevelopmental conditions that do not effect the blood, they effect The Brain and more importantly they effect how the brain functions. One point the author makes, I do somewhat agree with "From the psy-op perspective, diagnosing people with these disorder labels means they can be debilitated by the drugs." but from my perspective with Autism, I have not taken a single drug related to autism in any way and doctors do not attempt to get me to do so. With my disorder recognized, I can get extra help and support and understanding instead of discrimination. The author also talks a lot about how mental disorders may make a person look and that just sounds like discrimination to me or ultimately meaningless.
Ultimately, this blog is just an opinion piece but what it speaks to me is that Mental Disorders are real, but the side effects of drugs are an issue. The lack of physical tests does not directly invalidate the existence of a neurodevelopmental disorder like Autism, as it is studied psychologically. I would be happy knowing that in my mind, I do not have a mental disorder, I am normal, but to others, I am psychologically seen as acting or behaving differently and thus I am faced with discrimination unless people are made aware of my disorder, and thus I would prefer Autism to be real, so my disorder can be recognized and that I cannot be mistreated for my social incapabilities or anxiety around others or my inability to remain eye contact or my disbraxia making me fall over or bash into walls or my love of home and lacking the need to want to travel or leave or interact with any human apart from my mother really. Having this disorder recognized directly benefits me and I do not need to take drugs to "cure" it because there is no cure. So does this upset you?
His particular section about autism is interesting to say the least, "Notice that all the criteria for a diagnosis are behavioral. There is no mention of laboratory tests or test results. There is no definitive mention of chemical imbalance or genetic factors." Well, my mother is actually autistic and my father has ADHD and OCD, so I feel like me having autism is no coincidence. Upon googling for research into the relation of genetics and autism, there have been multiple studies.
Genetics of autism spectrum disorder: an umbrella review of systematic reviews and meta-analyses - Translational Psychiatry
Autism spectrum disorder (ASD) is a class of neurodevelopmental conditions with a large epidemiological and societal impact worldwide. To date, numerous studies have investigated the associations between genetic variants and ASD risk. To provide a robust synthesis of published evidence of...
www.nature.com
This specific study concludes that "CNTNAP2 mutations may be linked to the abnormal behavior of ASD by altering synaptic neurotransmission, functional connectivity, and neuronal network activity" although a key phrase to notice is the term may. "MTHFR is one of the most frequently-researched genes in ASD, with four and eight meta-analyses for A1298C and C667T polymorphisms, respectively. We found no significant association between the A1298C polymorphism of MTHFR and ASD risk in the five genetic models, which was consistent with the four meta-analyses, indicating that the A1298C polymorphism of MTHFR may not be a risk SNP of ASD. We found that the C667T polymorphism of MTHFR was associated with an increased risk of ASD, graded as having suggestive association under allelic, dominant, and heterozygote models and weak association under the homozygote model. Thus, the C667T polymorphism of MTHFR may confer ASD risk." and "In conclusion, our UR summarizes evidence on the genetics of ASD and provides a broad and detailed overview of risk genes for ASD. The rs2710102 and rs7794745 polymorphisms of CNTNAP2, C677T polymorphism of MTHFR, and rs731236 polymorphism of VDR may confer ASD risk"
So there is research being done today, looking into the relation between genes and autism. The author of the blog is wrong. Even then I see no issue with most of the key factors of autism being noticed behaviourally, it's a mental disorder after all, it's not a physical disorder.
"However, in that case, why bother to call it “autism?” Why not just say vaccine injury or head injury? The answer should be clear. By establishing a label like autism, medical drugs can be sold. Studies can be funded. An industry can be created."
I hate this nigga. Vaccines do not cause autism, we can get into that later if you would like. But ultimately, the entire crux of his argument is that Mental Disorder = bad because then medical experts can sell you drugs. Again, as someone with autism. I have not taken a single drug for my condition.
More to come.
Soygoy
I will fight for /anthro/
As someone with Autism, I am disgusted by the idea of curing autism or taking drugs for autism. So perhaps psychiatry is definitely worthy of criticism, the author makes some great points in regards to how drugs can negatively effect people, but ultimately the idea that neurodevelopmental disorders are not real is not proven in his article. I do however see things from a wider perspective now, that who I am and how I behave is not exactly something that's wrong with me that needs to be cured, though it never was, but the idea that doctors could find things that are "wrong" with you and sell you drugs for it is definitely worrying, like someone with Tourettes for example, imagine needing to take drugs for something so harmless, same with ADHD, I suppose.TLDR: Do your own research.
We're comparing an extensive history of research and a medically recognized mental disorder to one man's opinion blog, of which it's contents are heavily politically opinionated. Regardless, looking into the article, certain points arise such as "there are no defining physical tests. No blood tests, no urine tests, no saliva tests, no laboratory tests of any kind." which is interesting considering that these are purely mental disorders, so why would physical tests ever have any relevance?
It's important to realize here that the topic of debate is autism, not psychiatry and psychology as a whole and I could easily do my own research and present you with an extremely long documentation of the history of autism, what autism is and how autism effects us today, with the obvious fact that it is currently a medically recognized mental disorder. If we are to believe that autism is not real, I suppose that means that documentation for autism should not exist and it should not be medically recognized, which to me it honestly just seems like discrimination, not to mention for others with other mental disorders like Tourettes or Schizophrenia, if we are going to talk about psychiatry and psychology as a whole that is, then Aedra's viewpoint genuinely stems from a viewpoint of ignorance, i.e "Your condition is not real. Act normal." Genuinely disgusting in my opinion.
But back on topic. The article has a quote which I agree with "A disorder doesn’t have to have a blood test to be valid. If that were the case, all mental disorders would be invalid…There is no lab test for any mental disorder right now in our science." to which the author goes on a rampage over because mental disorders do not have physical tests, and why would they? They're neurodevelopmental conditions that do not effect the blood, they effect The Brain and more importantly they effect how the brain functions. One point the author makes, I do somewhat agree with "From the psy-op perspective, diagnosing people with these disorder labels means they can be debilitated by the drugs." but from my perspective with Autism, I have not taken a single drug related to autism in any way and doctors do not attempt to get me to do so. With my disorder recognized, I can get extra help and support and understanding instead of discrimination. The author also talks a lot about how mental disorders may make a person look and that just sounds like discrimination to me or ultimately meaningless.
Ultimately, this blog is just an opinion piece but what it speaks to me is that Mental Disorders are real, but the side effects of drugs are an issue. The lack of physical tests does not directly invalidate the existence of a neurodevelopmental disorder like Autism, as it is studied psychologically. I would be happy knowing that in my mind, I do not have a mental disorder, I am normal, but to others, I am psychologically seen as acting or behaving differently and thus I am faced with discrimination unless people are made aware of my disorder, and thus I would prefer Autism to be real, so my disorder can be recognized and that I cannot be mistreated for my social incapabilities or anxiety around others or my inability to remain eye contact or my disbraxia making me fall over or bash into walls or my love of home and lacking the need to want to travel or leave or interact with any human apart from my mother really. Having this disorder recognized directly benefits me and I do not need to take drugs to "cure" it because there is no cure. So does this upset you?
His particular section about autism is interesting to say the least, "Notice that all the criteria for a diagnosis are behavioral. There is no mention of laboratory tests or test results. There is no definitive mention of chemical imbalance or genetic factors." Well, my mother is actually autistic and my father has ADHD and OCD, so I feel like me having autism is no coincidence. Upon googling for research into the relation of genetics and autism, there have been multiple studies.
Genetics of autism spectrum disorder: an umbrella review of systematic reviews and meta-analyses - Translational Psychiatry
Autism spectrum disorder (ASD) is a class of neurodevelopmental conditions with a large epidemiological and societal impact worldwide. To date, numerous studies have investigated the associations between genetic variants and ASD risk. To provide a robust synthesis of published evidence of...
This specific study concludes that "CNTNAP2 mutations may be linked to the abnormal behavior of ASD by altering synaptic neurotransmission, functional connectivity, and neuronal network activity" although a key phrase to notice is the term may. "MTHFR is one of the most frequently-researched genes in ASD, with four and eight meta-analyses for A1298C and C667T polymorphisms, respectively. We found no significant association between the A1298C polymorphism of MTHFR and ASD risk in the five genetic models, which was consistent with the four meta-analyses, indicating that the A1298C polymorphism of MTHFR may not be a risk SNP of ASD. We found that the C667T polymorphism of MTHFR was associated with an increased risk of ASD, graded as having suggestive association under allelic, dominant, and heterozygote models and weak association under the homozygote model. Thus, the C667T polymorphism of MTHFR may confer ASD risk." and "In conclusion, our UR summarizes evidence on the genetics of ASD and provides a broad and detailed overview of risk genes for ASD. The rs2710102 and rs7794745 polymorphisms of CNTNAP2, C677T polymorphism of MTHFR, and rs731236 polymorphism of VDR may confer ASD risk"
So there is research being done today, looking into the relation between genes and autism. The author of the blog is wrong. Even then I see no issue with most of the key factors of autism being noticed behaviourally, it's a mental disorder after all, it's not a physical disorder.
"However, in that case, why bother to call it “autism?” Why not just say vaccine injury or head injury? The answer should be clear. By establishing a label like autism, medical drugs can be sold. Studies can be funded. An industry can be created."
I hate this nigga. Vaccines do not cause autism, we can get into that later if you would like. But ultimately, the entire crux of his argument is that Mental Disorder = bad because then medical experts can sell you drugs. Again, as someone with autism. I have not taken a single drug for my condition.
More to come.
The idea that these things need to be "cured" is just disgusting, but ultimately, having my condition be recognized helps me and it would help raise awareness to other people to not discriminate against people with neurodevelopmental disorders. This has only made me hate neurotypical people even more now, they want to "cure" us.
Total "Neurotypical" Death.
TND ASAP.
Soygoy
I will fight for /anthro/
Also lastly for now, Psychiatry and Psychology are two different things. Psychology is real, but psychiatry is evil.
Anyways with the sources that baqqrih has given me, I haven't found how religion ties into this, but I have been given a somewhat nuanced opinion on the whole ordeal and the evilness of psychiatry, which definitely seems more clear to me now. Identify differences in how people behave, label it as wrong and then sell them drugs to "cure" it. Overall, neurodevelopmental disorders exist in my opinion, as they are patterns of behaviour seen across a wide range of people, the issue is how people with those conditions are treated. I now believe that neurotypical people or people who are not the most nicest or welcoming are evil as they might look at someone with Tourettes or autism and discriminate against them for a condition that they cannot control.
The idea of masking my default behaviour just to satisfy the needs of "normal people" sounds disgusting to me. But overall I'd like to thank baqqrih for contributing to the discussion.
I feel like we can conclude that there is a definitive difference between Psychology and Psychiatry and that the study of human behaviours and their causes is different to attempting to treat it. I am genuinely afraid of what psychiatry believes a "normal healthy human being" is. Behaviourally exactly the same?
Anyways with the sources that baqqrih has given me, I haven't found how religion ties into this, but I have been given a somewhat nuanced opinion on the whole ordeal and the evilness of psychiatry, which definitely seems more clear to me now. Identify differences in how people behave, label it as wrong and then sell them drugs to "cure" it. Overall, neurodevelopmental disorders exist in my opinion, as they are patterns of behaviour seen across a wide range of people, the issue is how people with those conditions are treated. I now believe that neurotypical people or people who are not the most nicest or welcoming are evil as they might look at someone with Tourettes or autism and discriminate against them for a condition that they cannot control.
The idea of masking my default behaviour just to satisfy the needs of "normal people" sounds disgusting to me. But overall I'd like to thank baqqrih for contributing to the discussion.
I feel like we can conclude that there is a definitive difference between Psychology and Psychiatry and that the study of human behaviours and their causes is different to attempting to treat it. I am genuinely afraid of what psychiatry believes a "normal healthy human being" is. Behaviourally exactly the same?
Soygoy
I will fight for /anthro/
I feel a lot more now like autism is completely normal, same with other behavioural differences, but the scares from the past and absolutely horrendous infomercials like "I am Autism" have done damage to the image of people who are just different behaviourally and genuinely don't have that much wrong with them. Autism is not "head injury" it's completely normal. The idea that having autism means that your life is over is just so fucking stupid, but ultimately, I feel like having support for a condition that makes me unable to integrate into society socially is a good thing. I feel like my behavioural patterns are not going to go away any time soon or go away over time.
From a "normal" person's perspective I also dont see how an autistic person getting support is a bad thing, because it doesn't really affect normal people that much, it just means that I can live without having to interact with people, and you can live without ever having to interact with me in real life, so what's the big issue? I hate society, I hate people who might think that there is something wrong with me that needs to be cured and I hate how "neurotypical" people act, with all of this "empathy" bullshit and how they mistreat you because you didn't stare into their eyes long enough or you stared into their eyes for too long. Fucking normal people are selfish little fucks. Fuck you, I'm gonna take muh government money and never have to put up with normal people bullshit ever again. "Waah wah you said something that upset me thats socially unacceptable you MUST act how I say you must act o algo"
From a "normal" person's perspective I also dont see how an autistic person getting support is a bad thing, because it doesn't really affect normal people that much, it just means that I can live without having to interact with people, and you can live without ever having to interact with me in real life, so what's the big issue? I hate society, I hate people who might think that there is something wrong with me that needs to be cured and I hate how "neurotypical" people act, with all of this "empathy" bullshit and how they mistreat you because you didn't stare into their eyes long enough or you stared into their eyes for too long. Fucking normal people are selfish little fucks. Fuck you, I'm gonna take muh government money and never have to put up with normal people bullshit ever again. "Waah wah you said something that upset me thats socially unacceptable you MUST act how I say you must act o algo"
Aedra
Well-known schlogga
I wasn't going to respond anymore but I don't like it when people put words in my mouth that I never said. The point here isn't to say "your x thing doesn't exist therefore act normal". I don't give a fuck if your behavior is eccentric or unusual, that's a retarded thing to judge anyone for. So stop victimizing yourself and stop putting words in my mouth. Then see the point for what it is: Mental disorders are kike orchestrated hoaxes to put non-normies on jew pills.
ISTANBUL
Most Helpful Member of The Blog
if you ever tried debating anyone in real life you'd embarrass yourself so hard
Well, he's right in that regard. His point isn't that autists should shape up and act "normal" because of what he thinks.