Islam on Marriage and Sex: Troubling Stuff

baqqrih

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I've been reading the Quran more in my free time every now and then, not only because I know some Muslims, both online (like from here, of course) and also from my school, and want to know more of what they believe, but also because of my personal curiosity regarding what I see as heresy, to better understand what false teachings attempt to misguide others away from The Lord Christ. Most of the stuff in the Quran I'm already rather acquainted with regarding how Islam stands on familiar topics; things like the stories of the Old Testament or how they view the Messiah, Jesus, for example. However, I've become more troubled in my perception of Islam just as plain heresy by a rather big issue that always seems to come up rather when I hear debates regarding Islam or other sorts of conversation regarding it, that makes me really not like it in comparison to the other heresies and false beliefs I've read up on. This isn't necessarily just about Muhammad and Aisha, but more-so the "culture" of the faith as a whole in regard to child marriage, and the Quranic disposition of it. People well-read on the Quran may already know, then, what I'm going to bring up, and that is a verse you can find in Surah At-Talaq, the sixty-fifth Surah, near the very beginning of it, that's giving advice on the marriage of women. This verse is the fourth of the Surah, and it reads (text taken from Dr. Mustafa Khattab's translation):
>As for your women past the age of menstruation, in case you do not know, their waiting period is three months, and those who have not menstruated as well. As for those who are pregnant, their waiting period ends with delivery. And whoever is mindful of Allah, He will make their matters easy for them.
This just seems disgusting to me. Why does it brush this off as a normal thing, that those who have not undergone menstruation (children) are people who are okay to marry and have sex with? What the hell? Is this really thought of as acceptable? I thought a lot of this stuff was just drummed-up lies and it was just a few cases that weren't actually, really endorsed by Islam, but no, this is literally just pedophilia. Like, I knew of the Aisha thing, but I didn't know the Quran specifically endorses this in of itself. I've tried to understand this better with other commentary from the modern Muslim perception on the topic of child marriage, because I thought that maybe I am just confusing myself and getting things wrong, but this additional research only really reinforced my belief that there is disgusting stuff being endorsed and commanded here because of this teaching. The website "IslamQA" has a section about such a thing. I had to translate it since it was in Arabic, but, long-story short, its only concluding justification for when a married woman can be fucked is "when she can handle penetration". So, as long as the little girl can handle it, it is okay for her to be fucked, according to Islam. I mean, really? Is this really what is believed? This seems really fucking dreadful. Am I misunderstanding something here?
 
long-story short, its only concluding justification for when a married woman can be fucked is "when she can handle penetration". So, as long as the little girl can handle it, it is okay for her to be fucked, according to Islam.
I just learned about this yesterday
 
I have to also ask, was God's intention for sex not to be the means to produce offspring? Even putting the obvious immorality of pedophilia aside, what ever could be the purposeful justification for Islam's endorsement here of sex with children? I'm just really confused, and still rather freaked out about this teaching.
 
“No one should marry a woman except with her permission, as the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) commanded. If she dislikes that, she should not be forced into marriage, except for a young virgin girl, for her father may marry her off, and she does not have permission.”
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I have to also ask, was God's intention for sex not to be the means to produce offspring? Even putting the obvious immorality of pedophilia aside, what ever could be the purposeful justification for Islam's endorsement here of sex with children? I'm just really confused, and still rather freaked out about this teaching.
Judging from how consent from a woman is needed but children are viewed as literal property that can be given off, I'm guessing it's so the husband becomes the new guardian instead or something. Either way this is egregious
 
Yet another baqqrih fail, this is just like that time you thought you had an own with the greenbird story
 
On this or how you mocked Islam for martyrs being turned into green birds during the period of Barzakh?
On this, but you could speak about the green bird thing after you tell me how I've failed here. I'm curious about that, too.
 
On this, but you could speak about the green bird thing after you tell me how I've failed here.
There's a reason this verse isn't really included in a lot of criticism against Islam, it's not a strong argument at all. Nowhere does it explicitly advocate for young women to go get married off. Some women have menstruation periods that are much later and the Arabic language in the verse does not refer to children at all. I don't know Arabic, but I remember seeing something about this verse specifically a while ago and could try and find it for you.

The green bird stuff was a fail because that's during the period of Barzakh, which is the waiting period between death and judgement day. It isn't permanent.
>proceeds to lock the board for the 57th time
I only do this when a thread gets derailed or if I deem it detrimental to the health of the schlog.
 
I translated that webpage in a better translator, DeepL. It yielded better results

"As for females: A father may marry his young virgin daughter who has not reached the age of nine years without dispute if he places her in a competent position. Ibn al-Mundhir said: It is unanimous among all the people of knowledge that it is permissible for a father to marry his young daughter if she marries a competent man, even if she hates it and refuses.
"No one should marry a woman without her permission, as the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) commanded: She should not be forced to marry, except for the young virgin, whose father marries her without her permission.
According to this, a woman can't deny marriage if she's younger than nine
Just as he disposes of her money according to her interest, so does her marriage, and the Shari'ah only permits such a thing for a pious Muslim father who takes his children's interest into consideration, knowing full well that he is a shepherd and is responsible for his flock.
Apparently only pious Muslim fathers can do if it's in the interest of the child
Ibn Wahab reported from Malik on the matter of a man marrying his orphan: If he sees him (probably the husband) as virtuous, righteous and considerate, it is permissible for him to do so.
"Her guardian takes her place if he sees the interest in marrying her while she is young, by marrying her to a righteous man or a pious scholar, because she has an interest in this, just as al-Siddiq married the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) to this little girl who is seven years old, and at this age she does not have permission, but her guardian takes her place if he sees the interest."
They can only be married off to virtuous men or something
What young men and girls' guardians should do is to take the initiative to get married in order to protect their vaginas, preserve their honors, cover their nakedness, and achieve the great purposes that Allah has set forth in marriage.
Doing this to prevent rape or something


That's the webpage in a nutshell
 
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There's a reason this verse isn't really included in a lot of criticism against Islam, it's not a strong argument at all. Nowhere does it explicitly advocate for young women to go get married off. Some women have menstruation periods that are much later and the Arabic language in the verse does not refer to children at all. I don't know Arabic, but I remember seeing something about this verse specifically a while ago and could try and find it for you.

The green bird stuff was a fail because that's during the period of Barzakh, which is the waiting period between death and judgement day. It isn't permanent.
Thank you for clearing that up with the green birds. I wasn't aware, as I hadn't comprehended that it was a temporary thing, I thought it was simply some strange, immortal reward. Still, on the menstruation topic, I just felt that, alongside the other teachings I found regarding child marriage from sources like that IslamQA article I've linked, the implication my initial thoughts had must've therefore been true, as that's simply how the words sounded to me; that, if they have not menstruated yet, they must be so youthful as to have not had it yet as an average woman has, rather than simply having an abnormality that would make it happen later at an age that would not make them a child, and so that article only assisted me in thinking that. Still, I then have to ask, what are your thoughts on what that article has stated, as shown in SmallAnus' translation of it above, and from the rest of the article? Some of these teachings still seem to condone such perverted behavior, I'd say.
 
Thank you for clearing that up with the green birds. I wasn't aware, as I hadn't comprehended that it was a temporary thing, I thought it was simply some strange, immortal reward. Still, on the menstruation topic, I just felt that, alongside the other teachings I found regarding child marriage from sources like that IslamQA article I've linked, the implication my initial thoughts had must've therefore been true, as that's simply how the words sounded to me; that, if they have not menstruated yet, they must be so youthful as to have not had it yet as an average woman has, rather than simply having an abnormality that would make it happen later at an age that would not make them a child, and so that article only assisted me in thinking that. Still, I then have to ask, what are your thoughts on what that article has stated, as shown in SmallAnus' translation of it above, and from the rest of the article? These teachings still seem to condone such perverted behavior, I'd say.
That whole section details marriage, if it condoned child marriage it'd just have done so specifically. I found this website online that better explains it, similar to what I had seen a while back on the 'cord (religious/politic debate server) https://discover-the-truth.com/2016/03/12/quran-654-the-child-marriage-claim/

Ay yi yi, these gringo Christianos es so obsessed about mi... don't they know child marriage es in la Bible y el Talmud too? No mames way, holmes...
 
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