Predeterminism is a trvthvnke

God knows which of us are his children and wants us to eventually make it back to heaven with him. some people are simply of the world and will decay back into it upon death

See John 15:19
 
The fact that God knows what you will chose doesn't deprive you of choice. If you're a fatass deciding whether you want to eat a donut I can know that you will (through conjecture) but me knowing what you will do doesn't stop you from being an active and conscious agent deciding on your own what to do.
That's to say: God does know what you will do but you decide what you will do
 
I don’t know how someone could argue against this. The saint who witnessed the heavens themselves, Saint Paul, supports this idea, of course:
>For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified. - Epistle to the Romans, Chapter 8, Verses 29-30
I also don't know why someone would argue against this, or dedicate a long argument to the matter, anyway. As Saint Paul also points out sometime later in this same letter:
>Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments and how inscrutable his ways! - Epistle to the Romans, Chapter 11, Verse 33
It is enough to have the knowledge that defines this concept; that God loves us with a desire to save us, and that we are free to accept that salvation. To understand how God Himself works with pointless bickering, going beyond the comprehensible definition of "God desires, and so man can desire, and if he does, he is predestined" is a worthless endeavor. To go into depths of knowledge that eluded a saint who saw heaven is to be like a dog yapping at a steak on a tall counter-top. The dog can not reach it, but it still yaps for it in fruitless struggle, even after having been handed a treat (representing comprehensible knowledge) that has sustained its salivation (it's funny how much that word sounds like salvation) well enough.
 
baqqrih said:
I don’t know how someone could argue against this. The saint who witnessed the heavens themselves, Saint Paul, supports this idea, of course:
>For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified. - Epistle to the Romans, Chapter 8, Verses 29-30
I also don't know why someone would argue against this, or dedicate a long argument to the matter, anyway. As Saint Paul also points out sometime later in this same letter:
>Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments and how inscrutable his ways! - Epistle to the Romans, Chapter 11, Verse 33
It is enough to have the knowledge that defines this concept; that God loves us with a desire to save us, and that we are free to accept that salvation. To understand how God Himself works with pointless bickering, going beyond the comprehensible definition of "God desires, and so man can desire, and if he does, he is predestined" is a worthless endeavor. To go into depths of knowledge that eluded a saint who saw heaven is to be like a dog yapping at a steak on a tall counter-top. The dog can not reach it, but it still yaps for it in fruitless struggle, even after having been handed a treat (representing comprehensible knowledge) that has sustained its salivation (it's funny how much that word sounds like salvation) well enough.
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I didn't expect you of all people to say that men don't have free will.
 
Fortuna said:
You can't have free will with predestination.
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I think that our definitions may be different, on what this "predestination" is. In my perspective, we are "destined" for salvation by the grace of God, and by our own free will, we desire our salvation, if that makes sense.
 
baqqrih said:
I think that our definitions may be different, on what this "predestination" is. In my perspective, we are "destined" for salvation by the grace of God, and by our own free will, we desire our salvation, if that makes sense.
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Oh. That's not predestination at all.
 
baqqrih said:
Oh, alright. Thank you, I didn't know that the terms had different meanings.
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Theological determinism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
And double predestination is Calvinism of course. I suppose they do believe in a free will but they think because you're damned that you will make damned choices no matter what; like how a dog will always chase a stick. But I don't think that's free will.
 
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DOOOOOMMMM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! <--- me bein random again ^_^ hehe…toodles!!!!!

love and waffles,

t3h PeNgU1N oF d00m
 
NiggerRigger said:
hi every1 im new!!!!!!! *holds up spork* my name is katy but u can call me t3h PeNgU1N oF d00m!!!!!!!! lol…as u can see im very random!!!! thats why i came here, 2 meet random ppl like me ^_^… im 13 years old (im mature 4 my age tho!!) i like 2 watch invader zim w/ my girlfreind (im bi if u dont like it deal w/it) its our favorite tv show!!! bcuz its SOOOO random!!!! shes random 2 of course but i want 2 meet more random ppl =) like they say the more the merrier!!!! lol…neways i hope 2 make alot of freinds here so give me lots of commentses!!!!
DOOOOOMMMM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! <--- me bein random again ^_^ hehe…toodles!!!!!

love and waffles,

t3h PeNgU1N oF d00m
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what i even do
 
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