I watched Serial Experiments Lain, it's not good

[Blackweed]

I watched 6 episodes before stopping. If they wanted to make a commentary about the internet, then just do that, why do this allegorical Wired thing that isn't even subtle? The show halts itself numerous times just to exposition dump, literally a screen with scrolling text and a narrator explains something. It does a thing anime likes to do which is to make up things on the fly and give them English names because that makes it sound cool or something. It completely lost me when it introduced the ninja government agents. The whole premise sounds like an urban legend that would get shared around in middle schools, "what if the people you talk to online are actually le ghosts???". It's the same old Asian horror trope about spirits interfering with the living but reframed in the context of technology.

 

[Soygoy]

I watched 6 episodes before stopping. If they wanted to make a commentary about the internet, then just do that, why do this allegorical Wired thing that isn't even subtle? The show halts itself numerous times just to exposition dump, literally a screen with scrolling text and a narrator explains something. It does a thing anime likes to do which is to make up things on the fly and give them English names because that makes it sound cool or something. It completely lost me when it introduced the ninja government agents. The whole premise sounds like an urban legend that would get shared around in middle schools, "what if the people you talk to online are actually le ghosts???". It's the same old Asian horror trope about spirits interfering with the living but reframed in the context of technology.

>i attempted to watch an anime that i already didn't like, gave up on it and now i have to whine and bitch and complain about it on the bald man glasses site to make me feel valid
so valid xister.....

 

[Blackweed]

>i attempted to watch an anime that i already didn't like, gave up on it and now i have to whine and bitch and complain about it on the bald man glasses site to make me feel valid
so valid xister.....

yes

 

[Soygoy]

he show halts itself numerous times just to exposition dump, literally a screen with scrolling text and a narrator explains something.

This isn't necessarily a bad thing you know, Metal Gear Solid did it best, in my opinion. A story isn't exactly great in how it's told, I'll say, but rather how interesting the story itself is. You could make a movie about two cavemen just talking to eachother with no acting, just 2 cavemen talking to eachother and as long as the conversation is interesting, then I'd enjoy it. I suppose a lot of great stories are like that because they're set in 1 location and 1 location only with a small amount of main characters that are still important. I think one of Lain's strengths is to be unpredictable, so much so that it's very great at achieving psychological horror, it's very slowburn, I'd say, and if you can't handle that then obviously it's just not for you.

Lain is also one of those shows where you have to actually turn your brain on and think about what they're saying, same with Metal Gear Solid. But long exposition dumps aren't exactly a bad thing, they only really impact videogames IMO where the gameplay is halted by shit you don't care about. If you didn't care about exposition in Lain then I don't see why you'd watch it in the first place. Anime Fans typically wouldn't like Lain due to their short attention spans and love for things like constant action, a friend I had didn't like Lain because he was too used to shows like Spy x Family, whereas I was very used to shows like Breaking Bad, or shows that are really slowburn.

Personal preference at the end of the day though, and you've got to remember that Serial Experiments Lain came out in 1998, it was probably the first for it's time, predating The Matrix by about a year.

 

[JC Denton]

A story isn't exactly great in how it's told, I'll say, but rather how interesting the story itself is

I disagree with this. Just look at how many bad movie adaptations are these days. Storytelling matters a lot.

 

[Soygoy]

I disagree with this. Just look at how many bad movie adaptations are these days. Storytelling matters a lot.

Adaptations are usually bad in how creative liberty affects and changes the original story.

 

[JC Denton]

Adaptations are usually bad in how creative liberty affects and changes the original story.

They usually tell the same story tho.

 

[Soygoy]

They usually tell the same story tho.

Not exactly. Take The Boys (the show) vs the actual comic for example or any other adaptation that branches off, not sharing too much similarities with it's original source material.

 

[Blackweed]

This isn't necessarily a bad thing you know, Metal Gear Solid did it best, in my opinion. A story isn't exactly great in how it's told, I'll say, but rather how interesting the story itself is. You could make a movie about two cavemen just talking to eachother with no acting, just 2 cavemen talking to eachother and as long as the conversation is interesting, then I'd enjoy it. I suppose a lot of great stories are like that because they're set in 1 location and 1 location only with a small amount of main characters that are still important. I think one of Lain's strengths is to be unpredictable, so much so that it's very great at achieving psychological horror, it's very slowburn, I'd say, and if you can't handle that then obviously it's just not for you.

Lain is also one of those shows where you have to actually turn your brain on and think about what they're saying, same with Metal Gear Solid. But long exposition dumps aren't exactly a bad thing, they only really impact videogames IMO where the gameplay is halted by shit you don't care about. If you didn't care about exposition in Lain then I don't see why you'd watch it in the first place. Anime Fans typically wouldn't like Lain due to their short attention spans and love for things like constant action, a friend I had didn't like Lain because he was too used to shows like Spy x Family, whereas I was very used to shows like Breaking Bad, or shows that are really slowburn.

Personal preference at the end of the day though, and you've got to remember that Serial Experiments Lain came out in 1998, it was probably the first for it's time, predating The Matrix by about a year.

I don't even dislike it for being slow. I found the first episode intriguing and I liked the many extended scenes where it's just Lain walking down the street with nothing happening, I thought those were great in building suspense. On the contrary, what I didn't like was when it tries to have action, the serious nature of it being undermined by all these outlandish concepts that don't really add anything other than cool factor. Since you mentioned it, that's what's so frustrating about Metal Gear Solid, beneath it all is an excellent political thriller, but Kojima couldn't help himself and added cyborg ninjas and mercenaries with superpowers justified under the most tenuous contrivances.

 

[Soygoy]

I don't even dislike it for being slow. I found the first episode intriguing and I liked the many extended scenes where it's just Lain walking down the street with nothing happening, I thought those were great in building suspense. On the contrary, what I didn't like was when it tries to have action, the serious nature of it being undermined by all these outlandish concepts that don't really add anything other than cool factor. Since you mentioned it, that's what's so frustrating about Metal Gear Solid, beneath it all is an excellent political thriller, but Kojima couldn't help himself and added cyborg ninjas and mercenaries with superpowers justified under the most tenuous contrivances.

Cyborg ninjas and mercenaries with superpowers justified under the most tenuous contrivances are cool though.

 

[JC Denton]

Not exactly. Take The Boys (the show) vs the actual comic for example or any other adaptation that branches off, not sharing too much similarities with it's original source material.

I haven't watched that so I can't tell.
I think with good storytelling you can change something boring into something exciting. For example imagine good acting versus bad acting. They obviously make a difference.

 

[Soygoy]

I haven't watched that so I can't tell.
I think with good storytelling you can change something boring into something exciting. For example imagine good acting versus bad acting. They obviously make a difference.

I fail to see how you tell a boring story can make a boring story interesting, like going to the kitchen to make a sandwich, even if you made it extremely suspenseful, it's still just a boring story about someone making a sandwich.

 

[JC Denton]

I fail to see how you tell a boring story can make a boring story interesting, like going to the kitchen to make a sandwich, even if you made it extremely suspenseful, it's still just a boring story about someone making a sandwich.

Through the power of good writing everything can happen. But I have to agree that some stories are so bad that they aren't save-able

 

[Blackweed]

Cyborg ninjas and mercenaries with superpowers justified under the most tenuous contrivances are cool though.

Yeah I know they're cool, but they'd be even cooler if they were grounded instead of "he can read minds and levitate because he just can, okay???" I'm actually asking for even more exposition here (preferably delivered in small portions over the course of the game and not all at once in a 2 hour long cutscene).

I remember in Lain, episode 5, there was a plot point involving a car crash caused by hackers sabotaging their auto navigation system. Where the fuck did self-driving cars come from? There was no indication of that technology existing in their universe in any of the 4 prior episodes. There was a scene with a dude driving Lain home in a previous episode, why can't they use that to show the technology exists? Instead it's just mentioned casually out of nowhere. I'm just really autistic for this kind of thing.

 

[Fake20Dollarbill]

I watched it two, almost three years ago, it was amazingly boring until the last episode or so and even then it wasn't THAT great.

 

[Soygoy]

Yeah I know they're cool, but they'd be even cooler if they were grounded instead of "he can read minds and levitate because he just can, okay???" I'm actually asking for even more exposition here (preferably delivered in small portions over the course of the game and not all at once in a 2 hour long cutscene).

I remember in Lain, episode 5, there was a plot point involving a car crash caused by hackers sabotaging their auto navigation system. Where the fuck did self-driving cars come from? There was no indication of that technology existing in their universe in any of the 4 prior episodes. There was a scene with a dude driving Lain home in a previous episode, why can't they use that to show the technology exists? Instead it's just mentioned casually out of nowhere. I'm just really autistic for this kind of thing.

Agreed. Lain severely lacks the Kojima-esque explanations and history exposition dumps that it truly needs. I wanna know where self-driving cars came from, who developed them and why they exist. Everything must be explained o algo.

 

[Blackweed]

Agreed. Lain severely lacks the Kojima-esque explanations and history exposition dumps that it truly needs. I wanna know where self-driving cars came from, who developed them and why they exist. Everything must be explained o algo.

A mention that naturally integrates itself into the scene would suffice, like with the suggestion I made. Build-up and pay-off is important for any story.

 

[Soygoy]

A mention that naturally integrates itself into the scene would suffice, like with the suggestion I made. Build-up and pay-off is important for any story.

Even then though, that's just a minor nitpick. You can theorize about it, if you'd like.

 

[Xiuhcoyotl]

tranime therefore idc

 

[Blackweed]

Even then though, that's just a minor nitpick. You can theorize about it, if you'd like.

The wider point that I'm trying to make is that it regularly pulls new concepts out of nowhere (and then gives it a nonsensical English name). Maybe the writer thought this makes the story more original or cool. The things that do need exposition don't get it and the things don't need exposition get it. This is a writing convention I've noticed that's pretty common in anime so I'm not faulting Lain specifically for that. I just don't like it very much, and I guess I'm disappointed that even Lain, an anime that's relatively subtle and thoughtful, can't escape these tropes.